Day 068: Bickering Over Culture And Justice
Summary: Starts out talking about relationships, winds up with a clash of belief's between Cameron and Kai over culture, justice, and the future of the kru's.
Date: Day Month Year
Related: None
Cameron Kai Morgan Sage Silver 


The Pub — Tondc, Trikru

This public house is a mixed construction of old Earth brick walls and new Trikru metal. The entrance is from a preexisting structure — perhaps an old church based on the double-wide doors and steepled roof. It leads into a sprawling area that is far longer than it is wide. A long metal countertop runs the length of the room against a brick wall, and old stained glass windows are neatly spaced behind it, letting in color streams of light when the sun is high. Behind the countertop are shelves kept low of old bottled distilled alcohol and wooden casks of wheat beer and honey wine. The stools and seating at the bar are random and mismatched, and not all of them comfortable.

Opposite of the bar and at the back are the two newer walls made of metal and stone framing. The windows on this wall are cut roughly and inlaid with salvaged glass. The rest of the room is filled with random tables and chairs, creating arrangements of various sizes. There is a door in the back wall that leads to the boarding rooms, and the shared common area for those using the public house for longterm stay.

Day 68

The pub is busy tonight, what with all the visitors and /others/ in the village. Sitting at a table by herself in the back corner is Sage, her legs stretched out on the chair across from her and a pitcher and mug on the table. She seems in fine spirits, meaning she is relaxed and not glaring at someone or another. She is dressed in a leather top that highlights just how much weight she lost and the warmth of her skin has lost some of it's brightness. A mug moves to her lips as her eyes watch something or another across from her.

Kai's just secured herself a drink at the bar. She's trying this new thing of not wearing her armor everywhere, which means that right now she's wearing a halter-style top in a light green that might actually count as /feminine/ and does nothing to conceal the majority of her scars. A salute with her drink to the bartender and she schluffs off in search of a table to bother someone at. Like maybe Sage.

Morgan was only in TonDC briefly when they rendezvoused for the assault on the mountain. Now that that's finished, they're back tor the celebration and ritual torture of enemies. Having arrived a day early, Morgan's taking the time to sight see and the pre-war buildings are of notable interest. "Oh, a bar." he says to Cam. "Interesting."

Cameron wanders in with Morgan, his eyes a bit wide as he takes in the sight of the Trikru capital. He blinks a little bit at the end, leaning over to lean a shoulder on Morgan's as he eyes the bar. That's him processing 'bar' into a concept that makes sense, but he finally gets it, "Huh. I wonder how they manage transactions. What is one drink worth? Or a night's of drinking?" he wonders of Morgan, shifting his makeshift backpack that contains most of his belongings onto his back. He's in a tanktop, since the very first thing he did on returning to Jaha was to trade Mountain clothes for Ark clothes.

Sage notices Kai as she seems to be looking for a table. She raises her hand to gesture for the Second to join her. That of course is when Morgan and Cameron walk in and that gets the warriors attention. She doesn't do anything like sit up, but she does swirl her mug in her fingers as pale silvery eyes watch the pair.

It's not the presence of the guys, specifically, that draws Kai's attention, it's the mutter of Skaikru.. and more particularly, the mutter of Skaikru from someone not actually looking at her.. which always counts as a 'win' in her book. Slowly the Second looks back towards the entrance, following the gaze of the Trikru before raising her cup in the direction of Morgan and Cameron by way of acknowledgment before taking a swig of her drink and ambling the rest of the way to settle herself at Sage's table,"<In Trigedasleng> The city just gets more busy the sooner it gets. That or the war camps are running out of drinks."

"I don't know. An apple? Piece of jerky? How many days of drunk is a pig worth?" Giving a shrug, Morgan slowly looks around the place, catching sight of the raised glass and then the one doing the raising. "Oh, hey. There's Kai. Let's go over." And he suits action to words.

Cameron nods his head slightly to Morgan, "Noo idea, but hell, its something we're probably going to have to start thinking about ourselves." That said, he wanders over towards where Kai is, "Heya, Kai." he greets with a light smile.

Sage doesn't seem like she is going to sit up for the moment and keeps her legs crossed in one of the chairs. Of course she was alone at a large table with more than enough chairs for others. When Kai takes a seat she nods slowly to the Second and then asks in a deep husky voice. "<In Trigedasleng> Friends of yours?" The question comes just before the pair get to the table and then they get those silver eyes watching them, looking them over. "<In Trigedasleng> Pretty but too young.." She offers to Kai before giving another sip of her mug.

Kai dipped her head for Sage's first words with a 'Sha', though the second comment almost makes her choke on her mead, slowing her response to the approaching pair,"Cameron, Morgan.. Sage kom Trikru, she led the strike on the president's office.. Sage, Cameron and Morgan kom Skaikru.. Cameron was held by the Maunon, Morgan is Sondauna, they are niron." she offers hoarsely by way of introductions,"You'll need something to trade if you want to drink."

Morgan grins over at Sage. "Mochof." His accent definitely needs work. "Nice to meet you, Sage. So you captured Cage? That was well done." He motions to a chair and quirks a brow in question. "We were just wondering about that, Kai. Like what? All I have is some healing herbs and stuff. Some dried food too."

Silver, apparently, has worked out a little something for currency. And the pub is the perfect place to make the exchange. Just like she used to on the Ark, she's put her knack for fixing things to good work. One of the locals had a broken old solar flashlight, and with a little bit of work, Silver's gotten it back into working condition. "<In Trigedasleng> You'll need to leave it in the sun for a few hours a day," she explains as she hands it over. "<In Trigedasleng> But it should give you a few hours of extra light in return."

At mention of the Mountain, Cameron lifts a hand up to scratch at his nearly-healed chest wound, but he gives a respectful nod to Sage, "Heya, Sage kom Trikru." He hesitates, and decides not to butcher Trigedasleng, "Thanks for your part in the mountain. Not that you did it for me, I know you have your own reasons, but thanks, anyways. Especially if you took the President's Office, man. I scouted out level seven a little while captured and that place would not be a location I'd want to lay siege to." Then he grins at Morgan a bit, "I brought … various things, expecting we'd have to barter at some point. I'm just not sure on the value of a drink. I was going to watch and see what the … exchange rate, seemed to be." He pauses, then looks between Kai and Morgan, "Wait, what's 'sondauna' and 'niron'? I don't know either of those treegedasling." He knows his pronunciation is horrible, and it shows with an apologetic smile, but. He's been in the mountain!

Sage tilts her head to the side and a slide of black hair cascades over a shoulder as it is not braided as is normal. This causes the warrior to flicker it behind her shoulder and sits up, her legs sliding off her chair as she motions to the couple to sit down as they are drawing attention. What Kai says is nodded towards but then her eyes flicker up to Cameron. The intense look flickers from his face and then down his body and then back to his eyes. "You were one of these held?" IF he nods she leans back and takes another drink from her mug. "Your drinks will be on me.." She leaves it at that before she flickers a half smile, "Now sit, you are both drawing alot of attention and I don't feel like dealing with drooling boys at the moment.."

"Herbs would have more value than dried food. Practical things. It's not about what the bartender needs for the bar, specifically, but whether or not it has value in trade for someone he trades with." Silver, of course, draws her attention simply because she's already looking barward and gets a raised glass,"Hei, Silver!" called her way by way of greeting,"But healing herbs? Yeh.. especially right now. There's still a lot of people recovering from the attack on the Maunon.. add in the usual array of problems and they're hot property right now." is her suggestion,"The Heda named Morgan and Silver Sondauna.. life.. redeemer?" she glances towards Sage for confirmation,"For what they did with the Reaper. And niron basically amounts to 'person I'm fucking'. Or in this context, more particularly that you guys are fucking."

"Lovers." Morgan says, taking Cam's hand and lifting it to kiss the back of. "I think the implication is beyond just fucking though I could be wrong." He takes a seat, continuing to explain to Cam. "We captured a couple Reapers to see if we could help them. We discovered the Maunon were drugging them with some highly addictive shit, among other things. They both went into heavy withdrawal and cardiac arrest. We managed to bring one back. The Heda was watching at the time."

"It sounds so romantic when she puts it that way, doesn't it?" Silver says as she approaches, tucking something into her pocket and sliding into a seat with a small, tired smile. "Hey, guys. You come into town for the big party?" she asks Morgan and Cameron. "It sounds like it's going to be…interesting, at least."

"Yeah." Cameron nods his head, confirming his captivity, "I was one of those they took, but I was lucky. They also took my cousin Cookie. She they… harvested. Hanne, too. Ruth. Adam. Rawlins." He wrinkles his nose, frowning, but he's been offered to sit, so he goes and takes a seat with a nod of appreciation. But he has to smile at Morgan at the kiss: he can't stay in a mood with things like that going on. He nods thoughtfully to Kai, "I have a few things they might be interested in. I'm trying to save for a sword, though. A nice, proper sword. I don't think I have enough to trade for a suit of armor— those floating Mountain Men stole my hard-earned armor and weapons!— so I'm thinking… Sword." He gives a quick nod of his head. There's a grin for Morgan then, "Well, we aren't just fucking, so." Then he wrinkles his nose, "I still can't believe those people— Salvador Montgomery, their doctor, how he could be so nice looking after us and then go into a next room over and turn into freaking monster. Sick, sick, sick people." He grins at Silver, "Yeah, here for the main event. I don't know if I'm going to call it interesting, but Cage'll die a lot slower then his father did, that's for sure."

Sage settles back as the younger people talk. She is listening to the words but her eyes go distant for a moment and then she finishes her mead and settles the mug down. She then is moving to stand. "<In Trigedasleng> I must check on Khell, Kai if they drink to much. Cut them off.." Yep, she expects Kai to be the babysitter in these things. She gives a long nod to the others. "I am glad you made it out. So many did not.." Most have no clue she was kept for so long and it seems she is going to keep it that way.

Kai gives a slight shrug of her shoulders, nonchalant for Silver's pointing out her totally unromantic view of things. She elects to take drink of her mead,"Well, certainly more important contextually than a random hook-up, yes." there's a nod towards Cameron,"Have you had a chance to work on that artwork for me? I was going to see how big it was before I decided where to put it." she grunts,"Talk to Starling about armor, she does excellent work, she made mine.. and I survived being shot eight times while wearing it. So. But y'know, she's Wren's sister and Britt's friend." what relevance that has might be lost, though the grey-eyed Second looks at Cameron for a long moment. Sage moving to rise and her words draw her attention her way with a dip of her head,"<In Trigedasleng> Yes Sage, I will."

"Nice meeting you." Morgan tells Sage then smirks over at Kai. "Will you? That should be interesting." Silver gets a smile as she sits. "So, I hear you're getting lessons in herbalism. I expect regular reports on how things are going and everything you've learned."

For all Silver may be dressed like Trikru and be comfortable with the language, she's certainly less excited about the joys of cutting people up than the Trikru or the Skaikru. Setting an elbow on the table, she props her chin up in one hand, smile flickering at Morgan. "Mostly I'm spending a whole lot of time stitching people up," she says ruefully. "I've never missed gloves so much in my life." She holds out her hands, which are…in rough shape, chapped and cracked in places. "But I'm learning, yeah. Little by little."

"Yeah, nice meeting you." Cameron nods to Sage with a quick smile, dimples showing before he blinks at Kai, "Wait you got shot *eight* times? Man and I was complaining about my one." Scratch. Healing ITCHES. "I haven't yet, mostly because so much time has been spent in travel and I can't really get my art on when in transit. But I'll get to it soon, things should… Eden preserve us… calm down slightly now that… well. I think no one is currently wanting to kill me at all." The sudden realization makes him blink: he doesn't know how to process this! No one wants to kil him? Huh." Looking between Morgan and Silver, "Hey, I want details, too. My goal is to try to turn some of this native herbalism into *medicine*, refining it. I think I can find a beaker and a burner on Alpha, then I can start cooking up some drugs. Put my botany and chemistry training to something more useful."

"Artwork? Yes. I'm going to have it tattooed on me." Kai says to Morgan before adding to Silver,"Hey, I'm not complaining about any of your stitchwork. I'd still be in the Healing House with the rest of them without it, I reckon." she does elect to raise a hand to put in a request for drinks, however without putting in for a trade first. If there's some nice things about counting as Trikru.. and having punched out an Azgeda earlier in the week it's that she's good in that regard for the moment. She leaves the med talk to Silver and Morgan, instead nodding for Cameron,"Twice the first time we went to the mountain.. 7 times the second time, but the seventh went through my hand.." she raises the right one to show him,"And then the healers got pissed because I tore out my stitches when I got into a fight." there's a faint smile from her,"Sage, incidentally.. was one of the more than one hundred and thirty Trikru prisoners they were keeping in the cages we passed on the way out. But.. yeh.." she taps the fresher wounds near her collarbone, by a still angry axe scar that bisects it,"This larger one was a rifle on our way to you guys.. this smaller one was Cage himself." then the other side,"this one was a rifle again and this one a pistol.. uh.. oh.. here.." she shifts back a little so she can peel back enough of her shirt hem to show the one's by her hip,"This one was Cage, this other one was the first trip.. and then two on the back.. too. I think I spooked them when I jumped on the desk and they were trying to stop me from killing Cage."

"No, I mean keep us from drinking too much." Morgan answers, grinning. "But yeah, I'm hoping to run into Ginia here to arrange a tattoo we talked about way back when were were negotiating with Oxfor. Did you have a chance to get a hide, by the way?" he asks Cam. "I forgot to ask and it's been busy with one thing or another." Nodding to Silver, he notes "I've been saying from the day after they captured me at the ambush that we need to learn from them."

"Wren tried to get shot in his fool head," Silver grumbles, the irritation covering her lingering concerns over the warrior's state. "Miraculously, his fool head was hard enough that it just glanced off." On the topic of drugs, though, she summons up a smile. "That's what I'm hoping, Cam," she agrees with a nod. "We know what plants were around before the fallout, but we don't know what it's done to the local plant life, so…Learning what does what, and how they prepare it. It's nice, picking up new things."

<FS3> Cameron rolls Stealth: Good Success. (4 2 8 3 4 3 2 3 4 2 7)
<FS3> Cameron rolls Survival: Success. (4 2 2 7 5 6)
<FS3> Cameron rolls Melee: Failure. (1 3 6 6 2 1 4)

Cameron watches Kai show off her various wounds with eyebrows that attempt to climb up off of his head, "Eden, Kai, you're practically going through a thousand cuts yourself there, only its a thousand bullets for you. Pretty soon you're not going to have any skin left that isn't scarred!" This is said with astonishment, but also a bit of a grin, and nothing like, eww. "She was one of them? Man. When we hacked into their computer and saw all those cages… I feel a little guilty we didn't figure out a way to sneak in there and let everyone out then stage an internal rebellion. But at that point our people had started going missing and security was tight. Also, no weapons." He frowns. He grunts at Morgan with a slight shake of his head, "No, my hunting is out of practice. But, I might have something else she might want to trade for." He nods his head seriously to Silver then, "Yeah. But the basic principles of drug production— extraction and refinement— should apply once we identify which are useful for which. Especially since we have more equipment then we were expecting to have, since… you know." The whole freaking Ark fell out of the sky, and not a couple drop ships. "Could save a lot of lives, Trikru and us alike. Especially if we can replicate antibacterials, but hell, I might try cultivating some mold to see if some super-penicillin evolved while the earth was radioactive." .

"That's a pretty good pick up for your exposure." Kai grins wolfishly at Morgan,"But yeh, especially if you're drinking on me." she dips her head when the drinks are dropped off,"But you know, if you wanna risk drinking like Cass in here.. be my guest." there's a quiet laugh from her for Silver's words,"Wren led the charge into the office.. like Cameron said.. it was a tactically bad situation, the cover was shit, and they knew they had the advantage where they were at. So Sage says 'charge!' and we charged. Considering that there was at least four people firing at us.. three of them full-auto, that more of us weren't hit was a miracle. And I feel him drop back and wasn't sure where until he's yelling 'Kill them!' and me and Asher and Sage fell on them while they were patching him up. I stabbed the guy that shot him, only for Gideon to put an arrow through his throat and that sniveling bastard was hiding behind his desk.. so I jumped up there and that's when my luck run out. And I /still/ stabbed that fucker. Wren got his own, don't doubt that for a second. They couldn't keep him down." she insists before smirking at Cameron,"One of my gonakru, Pontus? He's got me beat, hands down. But yeh.. it's been a busy month. After tomorrow I'm going to the capital, Polis, before we head for New Coesbur to start rebuilding."

"Or just regular penicillin." Morgan puts in. "Any antibiotics are better than none. And refined and measured is better than slapping some leaves on an open wound or making a tea. Taking an aspirin beats boiling some bark any day." Grinning back at Kai, he notes "I've been studying their language since they captured me. There's some similarities with English so even back then I could often get the gist of what they were saying. Then Fi was teaching us a bit so we could negotiate with Oxfor. And I've spent a lot of time around them in general. Understanding is easier than speaking though. My accent sucks. I need a real teacher to be good at it. Say, how is Pontus? I've met him a few times. Good guy. I should introduce Cam to him since he was very concerned I get him back."

"Gloves. I swear, if someone could get gloves going, I'd be the happiest woman in the world," Silver sighs wistfully. "Be a lot easier than engineering antibiotics, too. Pontus is great," she adds to Morgan's question. "Really. He's a little startling to look at the first couple times, but he's good people, and willing to give us a chance. Which is…" She trails off, grimacing. "Well. More than can be said for some people."

Cameron tilts his head to the side, lifting up his mug and taking a sip, blinking, and taking another sip. "Huh. … interesting." But then he's looking to Kai as she tells her story of the attack, "Frankly I'm surprised you didn't kill Cage right then and there. The Trikru who were with us on level 3… well, ex-President Dante, who is as responsible for everything that happened to the Trikru as Cage, if not more so, … He survived a couple minutes before they killed him." He sighs a bit. But then he's nodding over to Morgan, "I'm just assuming that bacteria didn't mutate to be immune to regular penicillin. But, its something we can try." He looks between Morgan and Silver then, "… Startling to look at?" he asks, unsure what to make of that.

"Yes, understanding is easier than speaking." Kai can't argue that one,"Pontus took a bullet to the jaw when Britt's team took out the missile's, he's doing better than he was, but that's why he missed going back for the second round." she can't quite help the sympathetic smile given Silver's way,"It's.. gotten easier at least. Yeh? I mean, some days and people are easier than others. Though I think there I've got the advantage, now. Simply because no-one can say I haven't bled for the kru." which maybe is part of why she's willing to wear a top that exposes so many of her scars, just maybe. Her gaze goes back to Cameron with a grunt,"He'd have bled out if Arlin hadn't gotten to him. And after the first six bullets failed to kill me they put another one in me and everything was sort of hazy for a while after that." there's a slow shrug of her shoulders,"There's a lot of Trikru who have lost people for generations to the Maunon.. there's people getting into fights over who has more of a claim to giving him a cut. Cage is going to die bad and slow.. and I'm not going to pretend that's almost as satisfying. As to Pon.. he's been at this a long time.. he holds the line. His array of scars is.. extensive.. and impressive."

"Actually, penicillin might be even more effective than it used to be." Morgan muses. "Remember, it hasn't been used for almost a century. I don't think?" he adds, giving Silver an inquisitive look. "I'll guess not though. They do have antiseptics though. Like that anise oil. We used that on the ones who were sick in Coesbur when we went to help them."

"Maybe for you," Silver shrugs to Kai. "You fought. They see that. They respect that." But there's talk about healing, which is a more pleasant topic as it is. "They have their own methods," she nods to Morgan. "They didn't forget when the bombs went off that antiseptic procedure was a good thing. They just haven't had the option the same way we have. Cautery's big."

"Hey, I'm not arguing that Dante didn't need to die, he just didn't need to die right then. Could have interrogated him. Or put him up next to Cage and cut them both up; since Dante was in charge until like… two days before you guys took the Mountain, he's the one who was really responsible for everything that's happened." Cameron gives a little shrug of his shoulders, before nodding over with a thoughtful look for Morgan, "Maybe, I guess we'll have to find out. We'll have to make a point to go mold hunting, see if we can isolate some."

"They respect healers, too." Kai points out to Silver,"<In Trigedasleng> But as lover you are still Skai. As home one you would be Tri." she points out in Trigedasleng, she might have trouble finding just the word she wants these days, but her accent at least is far better than it was. There's a grunt for Cameron, though,"I wasn't there. But don't doubt for a second that there isn't a thousand people in this city alone who wouldn't like a piece of them. You wont find any mercy for the Maunon in Tondc, even if generally it is agreed that children are innocent and shouldn't be killed." she grimaces,"On level seven they stuck a couple of teens.. a year older than Rain, if that, in suits and gave them guns. It was.. bad. All I know is that there were more than a few who found being threatened over the lives of Maunon offensive, given what has been taken from them by them. And I understand that some of them were.. nice to you guys.. or whatever.. but remember their people.. in addition to being turned into Reapers and murdered and fed to their own people.. were being kept in cages and bled. I personally know and have fought with warriors who have lost limbs.. or didn't come back at all from the Mountain. Just.. have a little care, yeh? Like you with that doctor guy.. this shit is personal for most of the kru."

"Whatever you want." Morgan agrees, reaching over to take Cam's hand as he looks at Silver. "Yeah, there's a lot of techniques and info we can swap. A lot of our tech isn't going to last more than a generation probably, if that, so we need to prepare for it. Try to save the most important things, make do with alternatives that are natural." He just listens quietly to what Kai says, keeping an eye on Cam. "I'm all for revenge." he says very quietly since there's lots of ears around. "But when it's enacted on the innocent, it's just murder. But we've seen some of them don't seem to care much about that."

"Don't you start." Silver gives Kai a hard look, warning. "I'm sure it's all Wren's idea, but he needs to stop pushing on the houman front. I love him, I want to be with him, but I-" Cutting herself off, she shakes her head. "It's not anyone else's business, is really the only part that matters." Talk of guilt and innocence doesn't get much from her, save for a grimace.

"I'm not arguing for mercy, Kai. That's entirely my point: Dante deserved the thousand cuts too— probably more. Cage was President for two days, Dante for decades. Instead, he just got killed because one decided to take him out on her own." Cameron shakes his head slowly, "And its not that people were 'nice' to us, its that more then a few of them genuinely didn't know what was going on. You don't need to remind me what they did to the Trikru. I saw it with my own eyes. That doesn't make them all guilty, or are we any better then Cage or Dante?" He wrinkles his nose and shakes his head, glancing over at Morgan and squeezing his hand. The technology argument he's not going to get into again, but he does nod in agreement to Morgan's assessment. Then he blinks at Silver, "He needs to stop pushing on the … human front? What?"

There's something grateful in Kai's expression as Morgan expresses about the shelf life of tech, even if she doesn't actually comment on it, instead grunting,"They do care, just that the definition of innocent does not necessarily match yours. And if you think the Trikru are.. unforgiving.. the Azgeda? Who rule where Agro crashed? Make the kru look like the fluffiest of the fluffy bunnys." she drops her voice a degree, leaning forward and collecting her mug,"Silver and I, have done a lot of work here, to show what the hundred are capable of. It gets harder, and we get to deal with it when everyone seems to be more interested in yelling past one another on the regular." she spreads her hands and looks towards Silver,"Me being Tri and Eli being Skai was a big problem. Your thing with him is all you guys, but for the record he asks me how to woo you and y'know, like I fucking know that shit." she leaves it at that to nod towards Cameron,"Yeh, but there's only one person who would have given me shit if Cage had bled out before he got what was coming to him.. and well, Arlin has a hard on for 'em. Like I said, I wasn't there, but well, as I understand it.. she opened a door? And the radiation killed him. If your enemy told you 'you can't come in here'.. would you believe them? Cos I wouldn't. And hell.. I almost killed Cage myself. So I can't exactly throw stones. Just, y'know. Ease up man. Frankly I think that you'd do far better here than putzing around Alpha, but I fully admit that I'm biased as hell on that front. And it's houmon.. spouse, basically."

"What she said. One step up from niron." Morgan tells Cam. "From what you said, Cam, Scarlett should be okay. She honestly had no idea from what's been said. But I went to the brig the other day to get a look at the guy we have there. Cooper. Ran into Reno. And he's… Well. Acting like they're the best friends ever. It's like just because they were nice to you all, all of a sudden everything's forgiven and we should all be friends. He was a guard. He knew what was happening. He went along with it, at the least. Finally getting to know his victims and feeling bad about it doesn't absolve him." He shrugs. "I don't know but I wouldn't bet on his staying alive long."

Silver sighs at Cameron's question. "Houman," she repeats, emphasizing the slight difference in pronunciation. "It's like getting married. And it's not that I'm against…eventually? You know? I just…" She drops her head, rubbing a hand at the back of her neck. "I spent my whole life trying to be what people needed me to be, and then I went in the Box and I wasn't anyone. Just a blank slate, waiting for when I'd be allowed to be me again. Then we land here and everything goes insane. And I love Wren, but I barely even know who I am, and I don't want to never find out because I went right from nothing to being a we." At least there's a little bit of sympathy for Kai. "Tell him he knows I'm smarter than that and he's going to have to find a more clever way to spy on me than the one other person here from home who happens to be his second," she snorts.

"Kai. I was there. She absolutely knew what she was doing. She absolutely believed it would kill him. There's absolutely no bullshitting around the bend and pretending after the fact that she oh just didn't believe an enemy." Cameron shakes his head firmly, "And its different, you and Cage. You almost killed Cage in the heat of battle. Now he gets to face Trikru justice. Rinnan executed Dante on her own, when that floating bastard deserved some serious interrogation if not a whole lot more punishment then a quick death." He looks to Morgan and frowns, "Truman also helped us escape the Mountain. That fight when you came to rescue us? Would have been going a lot harder on you if it weren't for him. Trikru and Skaikru alike would have died in a LOT harder fight if he hadn't redirected the security teams and sewn utter chaos so you could get to us and rescue us. Trikru and Skaikru alike. He was in that cell for a reason: treason against the Mountain. Doesn't that mitigate any crime he committed? Also, he was internal security. He had nothing to do with the ground teams and the… reapers, and all of capturing Trikru business." He frowns, "If one more person says 'they were nice to you' and belittles my point I'm going to get really pissed off."

"Heeeellll no." Kai says emphatically,"He's not asking me to spy on you.. he wants to know how to woo you, Skaikru style. But I understand.. I mean, yeh. Up there I was always Tyler's daughter. Down here I worked out that's not really who I am.. I've no interest in being her either. But he see's you getting shit from the kru and the people who aren't sure where you stand and he just wants to.. fix shit for you in the best ways he knows how. That's all." she drains the last of her drink and raises a hand for another as she grunts at Cameron,"I'm not talking about Rinnan.. Earbiscuit is creepy as fuck. Great to have in a fight but.. yehhhh.. she literally has a necklace of Azgeda ears that she keeps on her horse." she shudders emphatically, that's a step too far, even for her. She nods and points at Cameron regarding Truman, though,"Tink said the same thing. I'd believe it. At the time I didn't pay attention but their radio chatter sure as fuck sounded like there was more of us than there was." even though she points out,"Dude, they were nice to you. Sorry, but they were. That means you got to see a side of them that pretty much everyone else didn't. Which isn't bad, but it does mean that you've got a slightly different perspective from everyone else. 's not an insult, man. But it is sort of like.. everything else. You got to see the human side of them.. we dealt with the face of evil side. Me, and Silver, have gotten to see the Trikru from completely different angles from you guys.. and it's frustrating when it's dismissed, just like it's frustrating when Arkkru talk about how much they suffered up on the Ark wondering if they were going to die and seriously feel like that's at all remotely the same to the shit we put up with down here that first month. At some point you just gotta acknowledge that different people seen different shit and aren't gonna agree with you."

"I don't know Cam. It warrants a quick death, at least. Does it warrant being allowed to live? And if yes, does he go free? Do we lock him up till he dies?" Morgan shrugs. "I don't know. And I'm glad it's not my decision too. The truly innocent should be fought for. The not so much?" He just shrugs again.

"Haven't we killed enough people yet? Killing people isn't the answer to every problem, though it's definitely winning the popular election these days." She pushes a hand through her hair, shaking her head. "Yeah, I get shit from people here," she grimaces to Kai. "But that's not something he can fix for me. As much as I hate to say it, I'm not sure it's something I can fix at all. The harder I try to say anything, the more they take it as proof of whatever they wanted to believe in the first place."

"They weren't nice to me." Cameron says, firmly, "They told me everyone I loved was dead, again and again, and put me through absolute hell as they lied to me every day because they wanted our genetic legacy— until they found a way to take it fast so they didn't have to wait. There was nothing nice about them. That said, there are innocents and there are guilty. The general population was not aware of the nature of their treatments. Since I got to know some of them, all I'm saying is: instead of dismissing me as being wool-eyed over them being 'nice' to me, hear my first hand testimony about some I know are either innocent or less guilty." Cameron lifts his mead up and chugs a drink, frowning quite intently now, "Truman chose, in the end, to betray his people to help us get rescued, knowing it would cost him his life with his people. That, in my opinion, earns him mercy. He's the only one from security I am arguing mercy for, I note. Kill the rest." He frowns, "I'm not even sure if Sarah should be on the innocent list: I thought she was exclusively a psychiatrist. But her being a medical doctor… every doctor and clinician, labtech and medtech and every person that ever hung a Trikru upside down and put needles into them, every one of those bastards deserve death. Believe me, people, this is not Cameron making a case for wholesale mercy. But come on, the janitors? I get that Blood Must Have Blood, but there's a line that after we cross, we stop being different from the Mountain, and where the question of our monsterousness is a question of kind, nor qualitatively different." He nods over to Silver: "I don't quite think we've killed enough yet, but I do see the line where 'enough' is not that far away."

Kai can't help but look at Silver for a long moment,"You do realize that like.. Wren's a Warrior.. killing people is what he.. we do. Just because we're not at war doesn't mean that we're not going to suddenly be retired. Eventually, we're going to be called up to deal with a problem that's probably going to involve making a whole lot more people very dead. Which is.. one of the things Eli and I argued about.. a lot. Just.. yeh. And I still get shit, I just get less shit because by law I am Trikru, and you're sort of.. somewhere in between." which doesn't mean there isn't sympathy in her look, still, but she dips her head in acknowledgment to Cameron,"Okay, fair enough. But well, mercy wise? Not my call. That's the Heda's call.. and Kane's call. I'll be there to take my cut if by some miracle there's not a lottery drawn on who gets to cut Cage.. but you know.. I've already had my taste of him, and I'm not so keen on killing people who can't fight back."

Morgan nods his agreement. "He certainly deserves what he's about to get. But maybe mercy benefits the ones giving it more than the one receiving it. But, again, not my decision. I just kill them and heal others." It's a dirty job but…

"Really? You guys kill people? Is that why people keep trying to kill you back and putting all those holes in you? Is that where those are coming from? I thought you just had some sort of weird disease where your skin was falling apart. Good thing you cleared that up for me." Silver pushes back from the tale, shoulders tight. "Morgan, Cam, good to see you again. I'm glad you got out all right, Cam. I should probably get back to checking to see if anyone else has come down with mysterious skin-hole disease."

Cameron purses his lips a bit, "I've been thinking if I want to get in line to take a cut— for Cookie, Hanne, Ruth, Adam, Rawlins— but…. It won't bring any back. Its enough for me that Cage is going to die, that the doctors responsible will die, that the security responsible will die. If it were up to me, they'd all die fast and quick. I'd rather we all be utterly morally superior to the Mountain, but this isn't the world we're in." He nods to Morgan, "Mercy says more about the giver then the receiver, absolutely." He looks over to Silver and winces, "Nice to see you again, Silver. Don't be a stranger. If you can avoid it."

"Yeh.. damnest thing." Kai drawls drily for Silver's words,"I'm just saying. Relax. But be aware of that, cos while you're not wrong to say there's been enough, until he retires.. it's.. gonna be like that." she opts for with a quelling gesture for the rising girl,"That's all." she shrugs for Cameron,"I don't know man.. I think the fact that we floated people, in private, made it too easy for people to forget that they were dying. I think, overall, when it comes to killing people there isn't much moral superiority at all. There's just the practicality of is it going to be you, or is it going to be them? Cage's death is an extension of how they do punishment. Like, as a Second.. if I fuck up? If I do something epicly stupid.. I'm not the one that eats it. Wren does. Because he's my teacher. And they make you stand there while the person who has the most faith in you gets cut for something you did. I can tell you it sure as fuck makes me a lot more careful about what I do. Him and the rest of Coesbur got cut for helping us. And they were lucky that the Heda decided that honoring the treaty with skaigeda mitigated to some degree that they disobeyed the kruheda.. but I think about that.. every time I want to punch Beckinson in his stupid, smug little face. You get punished by the people who your actions hurt, and afterwards you've got to look them in the face knowing what you did and have to find a way to make it up to them. In this case.. Cage and the Maunon hurt the entire kru.. the entire kru wants their cut. Granted, he's not going to live. He doesn't deserve to live, but that's where it stems from. You wrong someone, you are wronged, you have to face them, to feel their pain in a physical fashion.. it's a pretty effective deterrant."

"Talk to you later Silver." Morgan says, giving her a nod. As she heads out, he shakes his head. "It's as if some people think by just not reacting, all of a sudden the ones screwing you over will realize they don't have to try to kill you. Reno was talking like that too."

"There's moral superiority and moral inferiority everywhere, Kai. If nothing else it lies in who you kill and why." counters Cameron, though his voice is soft, "I've killed… five people now? Granted, one is Mags, but her blood is on my hands as I voted for it and would have done it myself if need be." He shrugs, "But I don't feel bad about any of them." But he has to shake his head, "I get that system of punishment, as an internal matter, how the Trikru operates and keeps its people in line… but to apply it to another culture is just… pointless. He won't see any meaning for it, so the torture isn't shaming, its just pure torture. Better to put him down like the animal he is." He looks to Morgan and winces, "You have to give Reno… You have to, and I'm telling you I'll withhold sex if you don't, give him leeway. He's not like us. He lived his life in a box, for the crime of simply living. Then he was boxed. He saw the Mountain… He thought they were home. He had the only people he cared about still there— Max and Tink— and the Mountain seemed… safe. Secure. Civilized. It made sense to him. He thought he found home. A place to be. And he was there for me, and helped me hold it together when I was seriously losing my mind. And just to prove me wrong he gave into my suspicions and helped hack into the Mountain's computers, and the fury when he saw what they did to Trikru… He took it personal. The whole mountain betrayed him by being a lie. That hurt him. For a couple weeks he was happy and had a safe home for the first time in his life. Then it turned out to be inhabited by vampires. Give him a break, Morgan. Please."

"I'm saying neither are superior or inferior, Cam, just different. Skaikru seem to like to think they're.. superior.. and I'm not saying you guys specifically, but in general.. too many like to basically go.. you guys are just savages because you kill people. And fail to remember that we, as a society, killed people too. Lots of people. We killed women for giving birth to a second child and people for getting in to fistfights.. and I can tell you that the Trikru find some of what we've done just as barbarous as the Skaikru find some of the stuff they've done when it all boils down to different methods and criterion about who deserves to die for what and how." she leans back and shakes her head,"Heda Lexa kom Trikru rules twelve clans, twelve clans of very different structures and outlooks, that have managed to reasonably get along since the Azgeda were forced to surrender at the end of the second Ice War. It's not for the Maunon that they are being punished, for them it is just torture, and bluntly given the death they've brought.. it's deserved torture as far as I'm concerned. But it is a reminder to the Coalition as a whole as to justice and what happens to those who break the peace. Think about it.. would you want to start a war, knowing that if somehow you didn't get murdered by the combined might of the rest of the Coalition, that you could look forward to being slowly tortured to death for your crime? Cos I sure as hell wouldn't." she doesn't comment about Reno, she obviously doesn't have any knowledge about that particular thing, so she just leaves that portion of the discussion between them.

"It's an attitude I don't have much patience for, Cam. And it's not just limited to him." Morgan points out. "Silver just said it. As if all that's needed is to not fight back and all of a sudden things will be great. I'll give them all leeway but they need to figure out that the world doesn't work that way. It never did, including on the Ark."

Cameron shakes his head, "I can tell you this, Kai, I'm awfully tired of people on the Trikru side looking down at us and then complaining how we think we're superior. The hypocrisy of it is laughable. That said, like I said: its a question of who you kill. The Ark killed lots of people. For absolutely nothing at all. I don't find the Ark in any way morally superior. You and me and Morgan, here, now, we are not the Ark. We're the 100. We can rise above and be better people. Striving to be better people is what I want to do with my life, Kai." He lifts a hand and rubs at his nose a bit, "I'm never going to agree that torture is justice, that torture is good, that torture is deserved. Its the Trikru way. So be it: it's the Ark's way, too. Fucking Kane threatened me with five shock baton lashes if I kept the gun which was by all rights my own property— it wasn't guard property at all— and that punishment is nothing but torture, since the shock baton does no lasting damage, just pain. Torture IS barbaric. Anyone who does it— Trikru, Skaikru— are barbarians as far as I'm concerned. And you know what? That puts both our clans in the barbarian circle, to me, Kai. I don't really see a lot of difference, in fact. But that's why I'm going to try to change the Skaikru. I might end up exiled for it, sooner or later, because I'm going to start raising hell for Kane." He looks to Morgan then and shakes his head, "You need to learn patience, then. Reno's… fragile. And I owe him. And he has absolutely no idea what life was like on the Ark, remember. I'm not a pacifist, don't start lumping me in with them, I know fighting is needed. But some people just can't fight. That's okay. Reno can still be a valuable member of society while we — people like us three here who can do what needs to be done — get it done."

"Hypocrisy makes the world go round, Cam, because I've heard the exact same words from the opposite side of the fence. Neither of you are right, and if you think you're fucking tired, try being the person in the middle. I can tell you who has given me an attitude about the Skaikru, and it's not the Trikru.. it's the goddamn Skaikru themselves, to the point where I don't like dealing with most of them because I'm sick of the insufferable arrogance of them. And that's coming from me." Kai collects her mug and settles back,"Jus drein jus daun serves a purpose, you've barely seen anything of the twelve clans and yet you think you know not only what's better for the Skaikru, but for the Trikru and by extension the whole Coalition? Spare me man.. just.. spare me. If being okay with it makes me a barbarian, sign me the fuck up. I can tell you how it's changed my attitude, personally, deliberately, to be more considerate and conscious of how my actions affect people around me. Like it or not, it works."

"I didn't lump you in." Morgan points out. "So why even bring it up? I also didn't say he had to fight. He's impressively unsuited to it. But he also needs to lose the air of superiority about how above violence he is. None of us are rushing out to stab or shoot anyone for the hell of it. But when others are about to stab us - or him - we're going to kill them first. I can understand not liking it but that's just how it works. And on that, I'm heading back to the camp. Probably see you tomorrow, Kai."

"What?" Cameron stares at Kai for a long moment, "Where did I say I know better for the Trikru or the Coalition? I never even suggested I had any opinion on Trikru let alone that I thought better of them. I have no horse in that race. Your people will decide for themselves their path. Don't put words in my mouth, Kai. Did you miss the part where I told you I thought my people were barbarians too? Like… hello, not morally superior? Am I speaking latin here?" He looks to Morgan, and shakes his head, sighing, "He is who he is. And who he is is fragile and sheltered and woefully unsuited to a lot of things. But he's one of us, too, Morgan. He doesn't have an air of superiority. I'm sick of that word being tossed around. Its a way to dismiss someone's point: oh, they're acting superior, therefore, they are just jerks and handwave away their point of view away. He has a different perspective then you or I. One born of his experience and its as valid as yours or mine, just different. Think about what his life has been. Trapped in a wall, silenced. Unsafe. Every day. All the time." That said, he shrugs, and lifts a hand over to rub along Morgan's arm, "I'll meet you at the camp."

"Sure thing Morgan.. tomorrow's going to be.. something. And be aware that fistfights are not.. exactly uncommon.. especially when people are drunk." Kai offers to Morgan before turning to look at Cameron,"Saying you think they're barbarians is, by extension, saying you reckon you've got a better way. And remember, regarding the Ark? I totally agreed with you.. now seeing similar stuff working more efficiently in another kru I'm now beginning to wonder if as a species we're not just so fucked up on a basic level that it's.. necessary. But part of finding out the accuracy of it, for me, is to go and check out how the other clans live. Which once I've been released from training I can do. But you've also missed people like Sergeant Breen coming to visit Tondc.. picking fights with Makers and non-Warriors, wanting to challenge injured warriors.. getting annoyed that Trikru are speaking Trigedasleng in their own city in their own places and when pointed out he's doing something culturally stupid that instead of just going 'shit sorry I didn't know'.. wants to give a lecture on how superior the Skaikru way is.. and it's like.. painful. It's just.. painful. When it's like.. well they're not using the land and technology is our birthright it's like.. it's not up to you whether or not they're using the land or feel that it is part of their land.. which, by the way.. it is. So if the attitude is that the Skaikru are entitled to do whatever they want and use whatever they want in the pursuit of preserving the technology.. it will eventually wind up in war.. and as the dumb bitch that would be on the front line.. oddly enough I would really prefer it didn't."

"No." Cameron frowns at Kai, "It doesn't mean I'm saying that at all: do not put words in my mouth. It means I disapprove. I don't agree. I won't ever agree: torture is never right. But am I saying I know better for the Trikru or the Coalition? No. We're different. I have my morals and I have every right to my morals. Never, not once, did I suggest or imply I wanted to impose my morals on the Trikru, let alone the Coalition." He waves a hand way, "I don't know anything about Breen, whoever that is, or anything to do with him: whatever fool things he did has nothing to do with me. I speak for myself, alone. I don't speak for anyone else at all." He grunts, "And I'm not entering into the technology argument again. If you think we'll ever submit to Trikru deciding what technology we keep and what we don't, you're… I don't even know. It'll never happen. It should never happen. We aren't going to turn into Trikru slaves, submissive to their will and doing only what they allow. Never, Kai. We're a free people and will remain so."

"Disapproval without a concrete plan on what can be done to fix it is just as empty as Reno's distaste for violence. But I think calling it barbaric is ignoring the fact that while we on the Ark were basically of one kru, we decided to apply a different, more extreme variation of the same thing up there as they have here. And that the Exodus Charters punishment schema is pretty much switching out knives for shocklashes. So if two entirely separate people that didn't even know the other existed came to a very similar conclusion about the best way of stopping people from being asses.. maybe there's something there. I don't know the history of punishment on the Ark, or among the Trikru.. but that's where I'd start." she shrugs her shoulders,"And there you're putting words in my mouth and assuming shit. That land belongs to the Trikru. If Kane negotiates with Indra and Lexa to have a certain portion of it be deemed Skaikru land? That's one thing. If Skaikru elect to negotiate for raw materials to build shit from the Trikru and the other clans? That's also something.. but they're not going to tolerate Skaikru deciding they have a right to claim a piece of land because they need it for a factory, or because it has iron in it. Or silica sand, and therefore, because they need it to maintain their dataslates or build parts for a solar panel that it's perfectly okay for them to just do whatever without negotiation or compensation because somehow the Skaikru's right to technology trumps the rights of everyone else.. that's where it's going to be a problem."

"For fucks sake, Kai, did you miss the fact that I floating called the Ark barbaric too?!" Cameron raises his voice, a very rare thing for him to do, "And I ABSOLUTELY freaking said that the shock baton nothing short of pure torture was barbaric? No. You're WANTING to make an argument, you're not even listening. You're WANTING to pick a fight. Float you." And with that Cameron is rising up and stomping off to leave.

"No Cameron.. I'm trying to say.. you want to change the world.. work out how you want to change it, and the consequences that come with those changes, yeh?" Kai's not rising, she's comfortable where she is,"You're focusing on the idea it's barbaric.. I'm saying that when two completely otherwise different and uninvolved cultures come to comparative solutions my brain goes: why? And I'm putting it to you because I know you're smart enough to not just stop at the ideology. I want you to think and be able to give me an answer better than 'it's barbaric' or 'it's our right' because you're smarter than that."

"It's enough that its barbaric, Kai." Cameron pauses a foot away, shaking his head, "I don't want to change the world, I want to change my people. You've joined Trikru so I don't expect you to understand: obedience to the Heda is their defining characteristic. I want democracy. The will of the people. I want to coexist with the Trikru, but I have no intention of changing the Trikru, or trying to make them fall in line with my morals — as if I could. The Skaikru will never be like the Trikru. Never. But we can have peace. That'll take negotiation. That'll take hard decisions and compromises. I'm all for that. But my people? My people I can judge. My people I can fight. And its enough that its barbaric, that I say: what we do is wrong. And the Ark is guilty of horrific barbarism. And I want to reject that. I'm not trying to change the world: I'm trying to change my people. I can disagree with Trikru without thinking you're subhuman, without thinking you're alien. My values are not your values. But I'll fight for my values, Kai. And I'll try to change my people to be a more perfect democracy. Right now, we elected a new Chancellor— Kane— and float me but I voted for that bastard, because this fool woman didn't see the importance of the peace with the Trikru that Kane saw. But I'm not done: I'm not satisfied. If I can't look you in the eye and say: torture is wrong. Then we simply will agree to disagree. Yet, notice, I am NOT trying to change the Trikru justice system. Or impose my morals over them. I am, however, even though I was captive in the Mountain, and even though my cousin was harvested to death by the Mountain, I am not choosing to partake in cutting Cage. You will also remember, I argued, Dante should not have been killed summarily as he was, but instead given to Trikru justice. I am not judging Trikru morals. I am saying my morals are different. I have that right.

"I've met the Heda. And yes, I'll follow her. She's not that much older than we are, Cam.. but she's forgotten more about strategy than I've ever known.. in addition to being the first woman I can truly say that I find.. astoundingly beautiful." Kai admits before dipping her head,"They are already like the Trikru in a lot of respects, Cam, at least.. to me. But.. how are you going to change it? What are you going to put in it's place? And remember.. if Dante had been given to Trikru justice.. he would have been tortured, just as Cage will be. Regarding shock lashes or lesser cutting, I don't count that as torture. I count it as a deterrent. Among the Trikru the memory of having been cut and the scars that come with it do not leave them, so that the next time they will be more careful about what they do. Shock lashing.. well, I've been lashed. It hurts like hell.. the memory of that is enough for some, but not all. But what matters is whether or not it results in improvement in behavior that benefits the community at large.. to me. I can say, subjectively, it's had that effect upon me. You don't agree, that's fine. You consider it torture.. I don't. But as someone who some day intends to lead a gonakru, perhaps even become a steheda in my own right, and someone who would end up having to fight if it did came to war.. I want people like you, and like Fi.. there helping to make the Skaikru better. To become another part of the Coalition.. which, by the way, is not becoming slaves to the Trikru. The kru's have their own autonomy, laws, and structure, it's simply that where it comes to matters between the kru's, the Heda's word is law. Given she's the one that saw fit to send us to the Mountain and has been working closely with Kane.. yeh, she's earnt my faith in that regard."

"Yes, I know Dante would have been tortured, because I accepted going into this, I was accepting Trikru justice. That doesn't mean I agree with it. If it were up to me, I'd kill those guilty swift and clean, but its not up to me. But I knew this was a joint venture, Kai. And that means I accept, as partners, Trikru ways. Trikru justice. Eve if its torture, which I hate." Cameron shakes his head with a firm frown, his hands going into his pockets, "But now I will argue and fight for those who should have mercy. Scarlett. Truman. The janitors. I am NOT trying to change Trikru ways: I understand, Blood Must Have Blood. But blood does not need the blood of janitors and curators and cooks. I will argue, to Kane and your Lexa alike, for recognition these people are just…people." He shakes his head then, sighing, "I don't know if the Skaikru can become part of the Coalition. I do want us to be in peace, I do want us to be allies, but… the Arkers will never be quite like the Grounders, Kai." And Cameron never refers to grounders as… Grounders. He has enough respect for them not to: but now he does. "We have different values. We always will. I don't want to be enemies. But, the Skaikru is not going to plant farms in dirt. We are going to re-engineer hydroponics: its simply more efficient, in every way better then land-based farming. We are going to consider our sciences as how we want to go. You look to me and say this means… I'm entitled. That we want to be able to do whatever we want. I counter: this is the legacy that is better and giving up anything we know is a loss that is dire and sad. I won't give up not a single thing that can be saved. Not a thing, Kai. But here's the thing. I'll share it all, too. Let the Trikru benefit from the knowledge we preserved from the old world, too. I don't want to lord it over them, I don't want to take them— and to be frank, I'm seriously a little pissed off you the last time we talked accused me of just being a Mountain in the brewing, just waiting to be a monster again. I'll give the Trikru everything I know in fair trade. It strengthens us all. I'm a botanist and chemist. What does it mean if I can develop medicine that has a greater potency, decrease complications, increases good results?"

"And that is why, Cameron, you are my brother. Fight for those who deserve mercy. But remember that even spared, they will need a place to live, a way of living, and a people to belong to. There are some, even among my gonakru, who are willing to be that, but they would have an easier time among the Skaikru and I acknowledge that." Kai makes a placating gesture at him. Sit. Sit,"No, they will not be quite the same, and in some ways, like hydroponics, that's not a bad thing. But it's not as simple as.. we have the technology to do it now, and it's better. As Morgan said.. the technology is dying. How is it going to be sustained? Who possesses the knowledge to create from scratch what our families have been recycling for years? Where is that material going to come from? How is it going to be refined? Growing in dirt might be less efficient, but it also requires less of everything else to make it happen, too. What if the cost of your technology is too high? What then? You, nor any of the Skaikru, have the right to tell people how they can or cannot use their land. You don't have the right to decide that your technological needs take precedence over how the Trikru or any other kru utilizes the resources that are as much their birthright as you say technology is the Skaikru's. Like it or not, maintaining that technology is going to require negotiating with the kru's, and understanding and accepting that there may well come a time when the Skaikru will have to decide what is worth saving and what has to be sacrificed. And the degree to which several Skaikru feel that technology takes precedence and that if the kru's wont give them whatever they decide they need to maintain it they will just take it.. like it or not, that makes them one step closer to being like the Maunon. That instead of working together and compromising for the sake of harmony that, functionally.. they're just stupid savages that don't understand the value of it is one step closer to deciding they are the enemy and in the name of protecting the Skaikru's legacy it's okay to kill them. You talk about fair trade.. but do you believe and trust everyone at Alpha to do the same? Cos I don't."

Placating gestures get a look, but only a mild one, and Cameron settles down again. "I don't agree the technology will die. Morgan and I have argued this from the start. Yes, in space, with no resources, it was failing, life support was failing, but I'm not willing to submit myself to a non-technological life. Partly, you're wrong: hydroponics is completely superior to traditional farming, requiring less of everything to produce more. This is a simple fact. All it takes to preserve is a very simple bit of science: knowledge of nitrogen, carbon, and mineral mixes, and how to combine them. We can do that. And produce a society that… doesn't need to frame itself only on need. Kai… Kai… I'm an artist. What I want to do is paint. I want that to be my life. But no society exists that accepts art if its agricultural base is not well defined. Being post-subsistence agricultural is essential for the life I want to lead. Why does the cost of the technology need to be too high? Why do the Trikru get absolute veto over anything we do? Then you're going into this nonsense area where you're creating in this pure fiction of your imagination where we're monsters. Sorry, Kai. I don't buy it."

"I'm not going to argue with you about hydroponics, Cameron.. but where exactly are you going to get those minerals? What if the people who own the place where they are don't want to trade them? You say absolute veto, I say.. it's their land. And maybe they're willing to trade for the stuff you want, and maybe they're not. They have the right to decide, to their own personal and cultural autonomy, to decide whether or not that's a trade they want to make. You and the Skaikru don't have the right to decide that your need is greater and therefore you're just going to take it whether or not they agree. That's not absolute veto, that's what you want doesn't fucking belong to you and you don't get to decide how important it is to someone else. What the Skaikru trade for, what they can maintain.. I've got no complaints about that, nor would anyone else.. but how much is it going to take? Where is it going to come from? Are the people who it belongs to going to be willing to give it up? You keep avoiding answering those questions, and the answers you do give me very much suggest that you feel that if the kru's do not wish to trade for what the Skaikru feel that they need to maintain that technology, that it's okay for them to take it. How would you feel, if the Trikru decided that they needed.. oh, some portion of Alpha in the top ring that might be useful to Skaikru and might not be. And instead of trading with you for that, they decided that well they need it more so it's okay if they just go and take it. Wouldn't you be offended by that? Wouldn't you expect that they ask and negotiate for that resource and agree that it would be up to Skaikru to decide whether or not they were willing to part with it? How does it magically become different, just because it's not Alpha being spoken about?"

"So you decide: we are utterly subservient to them. Sorry, Kai. That's …. insane. We didn't choose to come here, but we're here. I'm for negotiation. Trade. Peace. But you think…. its the Trikru to decide? And we are utterly subservient to them. That's… never going to happen. We're here and that has to be accepted." Cameron shakes his head and rises gain, ready to walk away again. "That's not even vaguely reasonable. You're creating insane scenarios of them demanding stuff they have no interest in. No… that's… not comparable. This comparison you're making I don't accept at all. This entire argument I don't think has bearing."

Kai facerubs,"You're being willfully blind, Cameron. Yes, you're here. On lands that belong to the Trikru. Congratulations. Whether you like it or not, that's how it fucking is. You and the rest of the Skaikru don't magically get to decide that because you fell on it, it's automatically yours and everyone else loses their rights because oh the Skaikru are here now and they take precedence.. that's the worst and most offensive kind of arrogance and you wouldn't stand for it if the situation was reversed so pretending it's okay because it's the Skaikru is just.. offensive. You are once again ignoring it, are you that blind that you find it completely unreasonable that they might decide they don't want to trade for the minerals you want? That ignorant that you can't understand how if Skaikru wants land they don't just get to decide well there's no village here so we'll take it because we need it but rather have to talk with the people who it already belongs to? I mean.. really.. Cam, you're more intelligent than this, so either you're being willfully stupid or you think I'm stupid. And I can't quite work out which."

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